The Hole Story - Golf Podcast

The Business of Golf with David Hyland

• BestBall • Season 4 • Episode 50

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0:00 | 45:08

David Hyland shares how he and his wife built The Business of Golf into a sharp, independent golf industry newsletter in less than a year. They talk about golf’s growth since COVID, why the business side of the sport is often overlooked, and how their outsider perspective has become a strength.

This episode also covers David’s unlikely path into golf, the challenges of bootstrapping a weekly publication, and the response they’ve gotten from brands and readers across the golf world.

https://www.thebusinessofgolf.co/

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*Music by AlexGrohl via Pixabay

SPEAKER_01

It's a great way to uh a great way to get rid of the jet lag and to kind of embed yourself in the culture is go straight to the Guinness Torres.

SPEAKER_02

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Whole Story Podcast. Jonathan and Robbie here. Jonathan, we we had a good conversation today about two things that we uh we personally are big fans of golf and business. That's right. As we talked to David Hyland of the business of golf. What did you think about that one?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean remarkable, I think, would be the right way from a business perspective, a 60% open on your email. If you if you're not subscribing, please do. It comes out on Fridays. Obviously, we'll include all the notes and places to do that in the show notes. Uh but I feel like in a lot of ways, doing a lot like what we do, only from a different medium, right? Like finding the stories and the people that are in the golf world that are just there. They're new sometimes. They're not the established, you know, old brand, if you will. Um, but being able to connect those folks to readers or listeners in our case. And really the the part I think I enjoyed the most was that it has it's more to do with just the relationships and the connections that you can make, not necessarily the brands. Like you start talking about what they're doing and then you quickly turn to, but they're really good people too. Um, and they're taking risk and they're highlighting that, which is incredible. Uh so we hope we can highlight what he's doing uh and continue that journey with them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What David and his wife are doing, if again, if you're not reading, like Jonathan said, you absolutely need to be doing it. Subscribe because they're they're doing some good stuff and the content's really, really good. So uh I hope you guys enjoy this episode because again, we've met a new person. I've been, you know, chatting with them. I've I've gotten on a phone call and chatting with him, I guess, since earlier this year, like in January or sometime. I looked back at our LinkedIn conversation and it's just been fun to continue following his journey. And it goes to show, like we we always talk about, or you love to say, Jonathan, five years it'll be five years. Well, for him, and like you know, you start in September, and all of a sudden you're in July, uh, not even a full year later, and you're blowing up doing some incredible things. So good, uh, good for them. Um, it is something that uh one, I am excited for them and and curious to see where it continues to go. So uh great interview, great conversation with great people in golf. That's uh that's what we like doing. So as always, many thanks to our friends at Summit Golf Brands. If you go to B Drati, Zero Restriction or Fairway and Green, any of their sites, and use Best Ball 20, you can find uh good stuff like what uh what Jonathan and I are rocking today, some B Drati shirts. Uh and they're they are good, perfect for any time of the year, uh summer or winter or fall, spring, whatever. They've got stuff for for every season. So, Jonathan, any final comments before we uh jump into this episode?

SPEAKER_00

Uh we need to go to Ireland apparently to play golf because now we've got someone that can host us and show us around. Maybe that could be a best ball golf trip. We could go do some uh the unspoken golf courses, the unknown golf courses of Ireland. That'd be fun.

SPEAKER_02

I would uh sign up right away for that. So yeah, best ball golf club members, y'all should uh y'all should push hard and we'll uh we'll come up with something. I'm sure Brandon would love to to host and entertain and uh go see people like David and others that we we've met along the way. So yeah, well let's get to uh let's get our chat with David Hyland, the business of golf. Y'all enjoy. Okay, well, joining us today on the whole story, Mr. David Hyland, the business of golf. David, how are you doing today? I'm good, I'm good. Thanks, Robbie. Yeah, great to be here and thanks for having me on. Absolutely, man. Well, as uh we are we are in the morning hours and you are in the afternoon uh where you are. So tell us tell us where you are right now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I'm just outside Dublin in Ireland, so it's half past two uh in the afternoon. Um so yeah, when people I talk to people in the States and they want to know kind of exactly where I am. I use my golf geography and I'm about a five-minute drive from the K Club. So uh the famous Ryder Cup course. So uh that's that's on on my doorstep, luckily enough. Um so yeah, it's a small town called Selbridge, uh just outside Dublin. Pretty good spot to be. It is. No, it's it's nice. It's a uh it's very much a commuter town uh for the city. So um we're in the suburbs, um, and I think our our most famous claim to fame is uh it's the birthplace of Arthur Guinness. So uh we uh we're we're steeped in in great history here in our in our little village.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well that's uh if if somebody's gonna be born from there, he's he's a pretty good one. So well you do this thing called the business of golf, and we do want to talk about that, but like with all our guests, like we want to know where did golf begin in your life? Did you grow up playing uh or was that something that came later in life?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it it came much later. So um I didn't play as a kid or anything. Um I have vivid memories of playing like local part three pitch and put courses a handful of times as a kid, but that was about as far as it went. So um golf wasn't really part of my childhood or it wasn't in the family. Um I started playing golf probably when I started working in kind of the corporate world. So um was fortunate enough to get invited to some outings um across my my early career. Um, but I didn't actually join a golf club until I was it was probably 10 years ago or so. So I was living in the UK uh for about four years back in 2012 to 2016. Um started playing a little bit over there just kind of casually. Uh and then when I moved home, uh I joined a club. Um so that was around 2017, around that. Um and yeah, I've been playing ever since and haven't got a whole lot better since then, uh mind you. Uh but have an absolute love for the sport. Uh really enjoy uh just getting out there and and I suppose trying to get better. Um I'd be I'd be very much a person who I watch all the video clips that there are to watch about how to improve my game. Um and yeah, I've I I watch one, I think I got it nailed. I go, yep, that's the reason I'm still rubbish. And then I go out and try to implement that. But uh yeah, generally it doesn't tend to pay off.

SPEAKER_00

What is a local club for you? Because in America we tend to romanticise pretty much every golf course that's in the UK or Ireland or anything like that. So do you have some little honor box somewhere that has some 90-year-old man sitting there and telling stories of old, or is it just like a regular golf course?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, so as you I'm sure you're aware, like we're very fortunate here in Ireland to have a golf course nearly around every corner. Um, so we are spoiled for choice here. Um my local course is actually the K Club. So um there are two courses there. So you've got the Ryder Cup course, um, which is uh probably locally known as the Fancy Course. Um, and then there's the Parmer South course, which I'm a member of, uh, which I think is is a fancy course. Um it is uh it's a very different challenge to the to the Ryder Cup course. Um, but I talk to locals, and a lot of people will say they will prefer uh the South course. Um but yeah, that's my local course, that's where I've been a member for the last couple of years. Um so yeah, but on my doorstep we've threw its Glen and Powers Court and the Carton House that were literally were spoiled for choice.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, a lot of uh a lot of good spots in that area. Jonathan and I did spend uh what one afternoon there in Dublin. Uh and I did make it I did make him go to the uh the Guinness storehouse. Uh very good. We we had just landed and we figured that was the best way to uh try to break the jet lag instead of trying to jump on a golf course right away. So we did spend a very brief period of time in uh in Dublin, and that was what he used to do.

SPEAKER_01

It's a great way to uh great way to get rid of the jet lag and to kind of embed yourself in the culture is go straight to the Guinness storehouse. Couldn't agree more than that. Of course. Of course.

SPEAKER_02

Well, what uh what is the full-time work for you? You say you you got the corporate job. It what uh what do you do full-time before we talk about the business of golf, or has that now shifted to be a full-time thing for you?

SPEAKER_01

So it's gonna sound like I was totally advertising just there a second ago because I do actually work for Guinness. So um my day job is uh I do I work for Diasio, um, so that is still the day job. Um the business of golf is um is done a lot of late nights, it's done a lot of weekends, uh, sometimes very early mornings. Um so myself and my wife set up the business. So we we were only going since September time last year. So we're still very, very young in the industry. Um, and between my full-time job, my wife uh she has her own marketing consultancy business, um, and we also have two young kids. So it's kind of all hands on deck um trying to find ways that we can keep it all going uh and not to drop any plates. Um but yeah, it's it's it's it's very challenging, I suppose, when we decided to put out a weekly newsletter. I don't think we fully appreciated quite uh the amount of work that needed to go into it. Um, but luckily enough, we we are loving it, like we're really enjoying it. It doesn't feel like it's hard, it's a hard work, although it is. Um it's like it's a labor of love. Um, and we're learning so much from it um professionally and personally. Um and yet, like it's it's it it takes up a lot of time, but it like I said, it's it's really enjoyable.

SPEAKER_00

We're we are really enjoying doing it together. Talk more about that labor because some of your stuff is clearly interview style in the sense of like you're meeting with people, but then others you're just essentially doing research and talking about the golf world. So is there is there a lean that you prefer when it comes to that? And how hard has it been to find the content? Because as you said, every Friday comes every Friday.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question, Jonathan. I think initially when we set up um and we were we kind of decided on the weekly newsletter, um we we hadn't really considered interviews that much or that they would become uh kind of an integral part of what we do. Um, but after a couple of interviews that we did, we realized that that's where we feel we can get the most amount of quality and insight uh and lessons that we can share with our audience. And we the feedback that we get from each newsletter, we feel that people resonate more when they hear real life in-person stories. I know you guys talk about golf being like it's a it's a people sport, it's about the people in there. And I think a lot of startups within in the industry or any business, they can learn and relate to other people uh from their experiences. So initially, with that what like I said, that wasn't the plan, but it has become a real important part of what we do. Um I mean, finding people to do the interviews is is has been no problem whatsoever. I mean, it it's probably the opposite. We we get a lot of requests to do these um type of interviews, but I mean, editorially, we want to be very careful of of how we manage this because like we haven't done any sort of advertising on the web, on the newsletter, and we don't do advertorials, we want to keep it very clean, very professional, and very targeted to our audience. So I will only write and publish something that I would find interesting myself, which was the whole premise of coming up with the business of golf in the first place. Um, so that's kind of the editorial rigour that we keep on the newsletter. We make sure that it's something that we feel will add value uh to people within the industry. Um and then, like you said, Jonathan, the the pieces where we're not doing interview, where we do have to do the research and that ourselves, that is more labour-intensive, obviously. Um uh, but again, that I I find that's probably where I learn just as much from that as I do from interviewing somebody from within the industry, um, because you're getting into the weeds of what you're trying to research and trying to understand. Um, neither myself nor my wife have ever worked in the golf industry before. So, like we're very much outsiders. Uh, and and what we found is actually that's become almost a superpower for us. So people have told us that golf is and has been and can be generalizing here, uh a very member-driven, traditional, almost insular sport in an industry. And what we try to do is just bring a kind of an external macro view to the news that's happening within golf. So we don't do breaking news, we we rarely create news, we curate it and we apply our experience on it. So I come from a commercial innovation background. My wife comes, as I mentioned, from a marketing and brand background. So between us, we both have what we believe is an interesting perspective, or at least a perspective, people can decide if it's interesting or not. But we're not claiming to be the expert on what we say is is the way it is. We will put it our take on what we see and allow people to take what they want from that. Um, and if it sparks an idea, or even if it just gets somebody to think about something in a slightly different way, then we feel like that we're we're probably adding something to to to the industry. And and that's that's our ultimate goal.

SPEAKER_02

David, take us back though, when this first started. Like what was the first idea? Was there something you read, something you you looked at, and you thought, you know, I think I could talk about this from a business side and kind of break things down and and kind of what was the origin or the I guess the reason for saying now is a good time to create the business of golf?

SPEAKER_01

There absolutely was, uh Robbie. Yes. So as I mentioned, we first set up in September time, which you will rem remember was around the Writer Cup. So um obviously Beth Page Black had just finished, and there was a lot of controversy and talk around the event outside of what happened on the on the actual course. Um and I remember reading about everything that had happened and finding nowhere where anybody was talking about the commercial impact or the potential commercial impact. I'm not saying that it wasn't there, perhaps it was written about, I don't know, but I I certainly couldn't find it anywhere where where I searched. And my mind automatically, maybe because of my professional background, went to a place of okay, the Ryder Cup is a premium product which has and relies on premium sponsorship. So in my mind, I was like, well, if if the PR coming out of this Ryder Cup in in Beth Page Black is negative or has has negative connotations, surely that is going to impact the overall product of what's being offered the next time uh the Ryder Cup comes around. So I was thinking if I'm sitting in Rolex's head office, am I going to value the property as much as I once did? And what does that mean when negotiations come around again for a sponsorship? And and that's kind of where the spark came from. It was like, well, this is all the business side of a huge global event that nobody really is diving into or discussing. Uh and that's where it came from. And that was our very first article that we did was we didn't cover what happened on the course, although as interesting as that was, especially as a European, um, it was it was it was more the business side. What does this mean? What's the implication? And we've kind of tried to keep that thread going through the newsletter ever since. So we we don't we we kind of try and explain why news has happened or why something has happened, not just putting it out there that this has happened, which I I feel a lot of traditional media within golf does. It tells you the news, but doesn't tell you why that news happened, and that's the layer we're trying to add in on top.

SPEAKER_00

With all the businesses that you're talking to, uh I'm a I can nerd out on business every single time we talk to a company that's got something that they're doing. And I am I like golf a lot, but I am like you. I came to it later in my life just mainly because Robbie was my boss and he played golf and I was in sales, so apparently you gotta play golf. And uh then I took 10 years off and now we're doing this. But right now there's this sense of a boom since COVID, right? At least in the United States. Obviously, historically, it's pretty steady, it seems, overseas. But as you're going through and doing research and talking to obviously a lot of companies within the last, what is it, 40 weeks or so? Um, do you find that everyone is just as optimistic that it's never going to stop? Because in the back of my brain, I just keep thinking at some point this falls apart, right? Even at one of the most recent articles you talked about was the the switch from green grass to digital and what that's going to take. And do you think the golf industry is even going to either admit that there could be a slowdown at some point or be willing to make that adjustment when it happens?

SPEAKER_01

Uh it's a great question. I I I I think I think the golf industry is going to continue growing for at least the next five years, uh, without a shadow of a doubt. And I I I don't think there will ever be a mass dip. I'd say maybe there will be a level of like there'll be a plateau at some point. Um I mean there there has to be a saturation point for a number of these verticals within golf. Um, but I think like you you guys might know better than me, but in the States there is a supply issue in terms of golf. So there's more people want to play than there are facilities that will allow them to do that. So getting tea times, finding a course, joining a course, there's wait times, there's lead times, etc. So the demand is there. And I think people finding different ways to play the sport if they can't play on grass is testament to that um growth and that desire for people to get into golf and to stay into golf. So if people can't play on their local course, there, if it whether it's a muni or whether it's a private course, they're gonna find other ways that they want to do it. Um like golf is without a doubt having a moment, and that's been going since COVID, which is is longer ago than I think we all we all give it credit for it. It it's five or six years ago now. So I think that's gonna continue to grow as long as the industry continues to grow with it and provide solutions for people to get into the game. So I think golf has done a brilliant job, the industry, in the last four to five years of finding ways to break down the traditional barriers that didn't let people in, um, that it was kept exclusive. I think there's ways now people can get in that like that wouldn't have been dreamed about about five or six years ago. And I think golf is going to keep evolving um with that. And I think the innovation that we're seeing within golf is is rapid and it's also it's it's high tech. Um so there people are finding ways all the time to keep people engaged, to entice people in, um, whether that's from an entertainment point of view, like a top golf, or whether it's your simulators or your your data tracking, whatever that might be. And then also there's the apparel side. So there are great apparel businesses within golf which are making golf and keeping golf cool. And it's like you don't just have to go to golf and wear their your traditional golf uniform. You can go for coffees or beers before or afterwards, whatever your your your choice is, and you can wear the same apparel, and it's just making it more of a lifestyle rather than um just uh uh uh 18 holes at a weekend on a Sunday if you're lucky to get out. So I think golf is making the sport more accessible, and therefore it's it's it's maintaining that growth, which I think is going to keep keep going in in the right direction for the sport.

SPEAKER_02

Have you found people starting to reach out to you now as an expert on on the business of golf?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we have like it, and it had that happened fairly early as well, Robbie, which was a bit unnerving. I think we were only a couple of months in, and um I won't name names, but like one of one of the world's oldest apparel brands got in touch after an article we did, and um, it was an article we did around kind of what we spoke about into the new world of golf. So the new entrance into the sport, the younger Gen Z perhaps uh people who wanted to get into golf, they were at a crossroads in their business around maintaining what they do for their core customer who was 50 plus, versus pivoting and maybe targeting the new up-and-coming entrance to the to the sport. So yeah, he reached out and it was it was it was a moment we kind of sat back and went, Well, okay, we're we're building credibility early, which is which is exactly what we wanted. Um it probably happened sooner than we expected. Um, but yeah, we like we have people constantly reaching out looking for advice on I suppose strategy about where their business is going to go, which is really cool. I mean, what a what a place for us to be in uh so soon in our journey. Um and look, consultancy as a I suppose as a a a a Pillar that will be part of our strategy in the long term, probably um as a a formal pillar, but we've other things we want to get after sooner rather than going down that road straight away. But I mean we're we're more than happy to chat to anybody about golf and the golf industry and the business of golf because as you said, Jonathan, it it's a fascinating place to be right now. It's so dynamic, um, and there's lots happening. And yeah, like we we'd happily chat to anybody who wants to give us give us a call and just talk talk all things golf.

SPEAKER_00

I would ditch the weekly newsletter just to talk strategy with business owners 100%. To be fair, I'm a I'm a I'm a nervous entrepreneur, so everything'd be like this just gonna fail. There's no way it's gonna work. I don't know how you guys are gonna do it. It must have been you picked the right website, that's what it was. The URL name automatically lended you credibility of well, clearly they know what they're talking about. I mean, it's the business of golf, right? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, yeah, I mean we we we kind of got lucky and we were pleasantly surprised um that we got the business of golf.co. We thought that that wouldn't be available. Um now we are actually, and it's funny you said it, we are actually looking at rebranding slightly over the next few weeks. Um so we want to be able to own our own IP, and the business of golf is quite a descriptive term that is used by everybody in golf all the time, but just because it is what it is. So um we are in the process of starting to rebrand slightly just so we can kind of have a little bit of security around our our our IP. So um yeah, uh we'll keep everybody updated. We we'll update people on on when that happens and what it's going to look like. But it it people some people mightn't even notice um when we change it. Like a lot of our our assets will will remain the same as they are. So uh it'll uh it'll be a slight pivot, uh, but nothing, nothing to worry anybody. And and our new branding will still give us that credibility, I hope, um, that people will still know exactly who we are and what we do.

SPEAKER_02

Well, for roughly eight months or so, you guys have been crushing it, but I'm sure that hasn't come without some challenges. So I guess maybe a two-part question. What what have been some of those challenges that y'all have had to push through? And then the second part, what has been the most rewarding thing that you have seen throughout this process?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think the challenging part is um it's probably as we mentioned earlier, around time and resource to get it done and to maintain a level of quality. Um we're very mindful that what we're putting out there, people are people are reading. Like we we are our subscriber open rate is is 60%, which is like it yeah, like it we're and it's maintained at 60% as well. So like we're we're delighted with that. So we know people who are reading our content are engaged. Um a number of people reach out and have told us that like they love a Friday afternoon or morning in the US when they when they get it, and they said it's part of their highlight of their week. So um we're very mindful that the quality needs to be there. So making sure we have the time and the headspace and the and and and the the bandwidth, I suppose, to to maintain that quality is is really important, and and that is challenging. Um the other couple of challenging things that we come across is we've had we've had opportunities to monetize, which we've turned down, which is really hard to do, um, especially when we're bootstrapping this um and like we're we're we're funding what we need to fund ourselves. So when you're somebody's offering you dollars and you're turning them down, it it's very difficult to do that. But look, we're doing that for all the right reasons. Um we want to stay away from having multiple rotating advertisers on the newsletter every week where you've got pop-up banners or header boards, whatever they might be. We just we want, like I said, the quality is important to us. We want to main maintain that premium look and feel. So that's another hard part is turning down the the revenue when it when it's offered. Uh, but like I said, we believe it is the right way, right way for us to go as a brand. Um and uh another challenging part is not having the time at the moment to do everything that we want to do when we want to do it. So, like some people have said to us, it's good that you're building slow. You're you know, I mean the foundations are being built and they're being built properly and and they'll be strong and they'll stand to you later on um as you guys grow. But we're kind of eager to keep keep moving, keep progressing. Um we know there's low-hanging fruit there that we haven't yet picked. Um, like for example, like we haven't done any video, you know, in a world that we live in, for a brand and a company like us not to have done video feels like a big miss, and it is, but at this moment in time we don't have the resource or the time to to film, edit, record. You guys will know it it's very time consuming. So that's challenging, is that we're not able to do everything that we want to do right now, but we have great plans in place for when that opportunity comes that we do have plans uh and do have the time to do that. So um yeah, look, we hope very in the very near future we'll be in a position to to give this a proper crack in terms of investing everything we have into it from our a time point of view. So that's there are probably three. I probably gave you three options, three uh examples there, Robbie. Um, but they're there are three things that have been challenging. Um and in terms of most rewarding, I would say it's a feedback from our our our readers when we've put out an article and people say, Look, I got great value from this. And like when we we've actually had people have reached out to say they're setting up a business in golf, and until they read an interview that we did or an article that we published, they didn't realize X, Y, and Z. So they've changed their approach slightly and implemented um maybe a recommendation that we had or something we just highlighted, and they said that's changed the the trajectory of their business. That's so rewarding for us um to hear that. Um and yet it I think it's it's always just the feedback when that that keeps us really motivated when we get the positive feedback from people um that they enjoy what we're doing. And like I said, people said it's the highlight of their of their week when they know the the newsletter's going to land in their inbox. So um that's something that we hope will continue um as as we as we continue to to grow. Um but yeah, that there's a lot of rewarding things in it, um, just us learning as well as we go. Like as I said, we're not from the industry, so every day is a school day. Um and it's it's funny, we've had conversations with people where we've surprised ourselves with how much information and knowledge we have uh digested over the last few months, and we we've it's a moment then when you kind of go, actually, yeah, we we we do know what we're talking about here. We've we've covered a lot of things and we've learned so much in a short space of time, but we're far from being the final polished experts in the industry, and like we we'll continue to to keep learning for as long as we can to try and get to there.

SPEAKER_00

At this point, are do you find that there are folks reaching out to you, maybe even asking to be on in in the newsletter, or as you mentioned, are they reaching out completely independently and saying, can you help us with our business?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we we've had both. Um so we've we have like even actually it was funny. What day we yeah, at the weekend. So since Saturday, I got three embargoed press releases asking if we wanted to get the inside scoop on these stories. And I was just, I mean, that type of thing again, that just really motivates you to go. We're we're on people's radar, um, where people are are seeing us as the credible news outlet where they can get their news and their information out to out to the golf industry. So um, yeah, people contact us all the time about looking to do collaborations and advertising, etc. And look, one of our strategies will be to partner and collaborate with maybe three, four brands over a sustained period of time rather than chopping and changing with ones every different week. So we will look to partner with with brands where we can build something together. Um, so it's not just a one-way message, it's just an ad an ad placement. We'd rather build something where we can mutually benefit from the relationship. Um, so that's something that we're we're looking to do at the moment, and we are speaking to to a number of brands, so that that's exciting. Um, but yeah, so we do have individuals then reach out, as I said, um looking for advice and insight on certain areas that may help them with their business. Um and another interesting thing that's that's has started to happen as well is people are starting to contact us or maybe people I we've already contacted with, but then looking for us to be almost like a catalyst for relationships with other people that they know we know as well. So we're starting to see that we've got the audience, we've got a really, I suppose, engaged audience of a certain quality. So a lot of our followers and our readers are C-suite execs within the golf industry, they're founders, they're innovators, they're brand builders. Um, and they see us as as the the the point that they are the people that they can go to to make connections with whatever it is that they're maybe looking to do. So um we do get contacted quite a lot. So we've inboxes that are full. So I might use this opportunity to apologize to anybody we haven't got back to yet, but we do get back to everybody eventually. So uh so bear with us.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I I personally uh am one of those that that look forward to receiving uh the business of golf in my email. And I do want to uh give you a quick thanks. I know at least once you have referenced one of the podcasts or things that we are doing uh within your uh within your newsletter. So that is an honor uh to to find some space within that that you would uh be kind enough to share with your audience. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no, no, you're very welcome. Like I said, it's all about the quality. So um of course I have you guys you guys featured there as well. Hopefully we didn't bring you down too much.

SPEAKER_02

Here's what not to do in business. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that'll be the that'll be a story next week. Here's what not to do. So sometimes you get your best lessons from what not to do. That is true. Well, we we have uh plenty of those we can we'd be happy to share. Um well you know, we should probably start wrapping up because again, you do have other work and other uh stories to write and things to do. So we'll we'll start moving towards the end. And and one question, as we want to kind of get back to some some good stories, one question we ask everybody is what is the story of your most memorable golf shot?

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow, um, that is a great question. And it's funny, as soon as you asked me that that question, it flashed into my mind, and it's not a good story. Uh I will I will tell it though. And it was when I was in the UK, as I mentioned before, I had really started playing golf. Um, it was on one of these corporate golf days, and I'll never forget the company I was working for. We had sponsored this particular hole we were on, I think it was the 10th hole in a golf course called Carden Park. Um kind of the central England. And I teed off on this sponsored hole from our company. Uh my tee shot went a little bit right, uh, and then it continued to go right, and then it went further right, and it actually caught the driveway up to the up to the clubhouse, up to the house that was there, and it took a bounce and spun straight up and smashed the windscreen of an oncoming car. Oh yeah, so it was yeah, it was it was a memorable shot for all the wrong reasons. Um, and it turns out the guy driving the car, he he was my waiter later on at the dinner. Oh no. I was very very cautious about eating the food he just handed me because I wasn't sure how he was how he was feeling after the incident. But uh yeah, luckily they were all okay in the car. There's three of them in the car. They're only young, young, uh, young guys in the car, but they were all okay. I think I was more shaken than they were. But uh yeah, it made some crack. I think the whole golf course heard the crack of the windscreen after I after I did it. But I have got a bit better since then. That was about 10 odd years ago. So hey, that that still happens to the best of us, so no worries there.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I'll I'll take comfort in that Robbie.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. In America, we just hit houses because there's too many houses nearby. I've got a friend of mine on one hole, he hit that same house three times. It was great. Another thing we like to do is what we call the quick nine. So just a little back and forth here. Uh I think you've got some good ones to choose from. What is the favorite course that you've ever played?

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow, that is a great question as well. Um, my favorite course is Enniscrone in the northwest of Ireland. The Lynx course, really tough, but beautiful.

SPEAKER_02

Very nice. Near uh near Karn. So that was one. I know our buddy Brandon has gotten to go play uh a number of times.

SPEAKER_01

Carn's beautiful as well, yeah. I think it's very hard to find not a beautiful course up Donegal's Sligo area. There it's it's it's stunning. When the weather's good, it's stunning. Alright, what courses at the top of your bucket list? Do you know I have so many courses in Ireland yet to play that are like I'd say you guys have probably played them and I haven't. Like I have never played Royal County Down, I've never played the old head. Um there are probably two right up there on my on my to-do list. Um outside of that, I mean the the US classics are where like I'd I'd really love to love to play. Um and I think the way I have them in my head, there's no way I'd do them one trip because they're all over the country. Um but I think yeah, look, if I if I I may as well start my own doorstop, I'd say the old head in Kinsale would be my my next go-to if I have the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02

Well, but that Karan is the only one in Ireland that we have played. So uh every other one you mentioned, even the fancy course there, uh is uh is on the bucket list for us.

SPEAKER_01

You need just to plan a trip over. We can I can take you around some, we can cover them together. What do we need to do? Let's love it, let's do it. And and then we're right about how much it cost us. If we're looking, we might get somebody else to pay for it. There we go. Even better. What is your favorite course that no one knows about? I would say most people in Ireland know, but I'd say it's not one that maybe the Americans know when they come over. It's a course called Sea Point. Um, it's on the East Coast. Um, again, it's it's a Lynx course, but it is just it's stunning. It's a really, really cool course. Um again, really challenging, but I think most Lynx courses are, but it's just beautiful. Some of the views there are are out of this world. Um, but I don't think it's really on the radar for a lot of Americans when they come over. So um definitely one to check out if you're if you're in that area.

SPEAKER_02

That that's the trip we want to do. We want to come play all the ones that nobody talks about.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

They're just as good. They just don't have as good of uh uh advertising budget, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Yeah, like the all these kind of hidden hidden beauties around around Ireland. There's so many of them, and um they probably cost you a hell of a lot less than the courses that that you usually come to. So yeah, look at the like I said, like we're spoiled for choice here with courses. Um and there are the ones that you don't think uh because they haven't got the the big name or the big budgets, are are some of the best courses you'll find.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. We're coming. All right. Uh well you don't have to put us in this, but who would be in your dream force them?

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow, that's a great question. Well, I'd have to put Shane Lowry in there, um, just because not only obviously is he a superb golfer, but I think he'd be a great crack and and you'd be guaranteed somebody to go for a pint with afterwards. So I think Shane would definitely be a play around with Annika Sornston as well. I think she would be a really interesting person to get around with. Um sorry, do these have to be golfers? It can be anybody. Anybody. Anybody. Um even Jonathan. Even Jonathan. Um I would also love to get around in with Brian Rolap, I think, just to get off the record comments and just to really kind of pick his brains about how the PGA tour is changing. And um, I mean we've covered that a lot, so it would be interesting just maybe get some off the record insights. Um, so I think Brian Rolap would be one. And after that, I think probably Lino Messi. I'm a football fan too, and he's the greatest that's ever lived, I think, in my opinion. So yeah, I think Leno Messi. I don't know if he golfs or not, but he can't be he can't be any better or worse than me. So he'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02

He's probably one of those that would just pick it up and be really good all of a sudden, and you're probably really annoying.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Well, I know food is handled differently over there and golf courses. So what is your favorite snack at the turn? It might be a whole meal.

SPEAKER_01

It could be, yeah. Um do you know what? You know, I interviewed Bryce from Gleasy Dog last week, um, who do the hot dogs. Um, unfortunately, I can't get Gleasy Dog over here. So I think if I had the option, I would have a Gleasy Dog, Gleasy Dog, hot dog uh at the turn if I could, because I'm down to down to try them.

SPEAKER_02

I I tried one at an event and it is really good, so yeah, I would recommend.

SPEAKER_01

It was it was a tough interview because literally we were talking about his amazing product the whole way through, and I just really wanted one. Yeah. So I I'm nearly gonna plan a trip to the States just so I can try one.

SPEAKER_02

Just for that, I get it. Yeah. Alright. What is your favorite golf course logo?

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow. Uh that's a really good question. Um I think it's gotta be Augusta. Is that too obvious? No. No, I just think you know, that's probably for me like while although I didn't play golf growing up, I would have always watched the Masters, and I think that's just the epitome of of golf for me for when I was younger and growing up. I think the the masters, the event with the logo as well. I think it's it's simple, it's simplistic, but I think it's more what it stands for rather than the actual logo. Um it just yeah, it embodies golf for me. So yeah, I think the the Augusta National logo.

SPEAKER_00

Good choice. What has been your favorite pro shop purchase? Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01

Um my favorite pro shop purchase. I would say it was probably the K Club umbrella I got when I first joined because I get so much use out of it in Ireland. Um I'd be lost without it. So I think that's probably my my favorite purchase. Um yeah, I don't really have a lot of kind of attire from courses I've been to. I need to I need to s fix that actually. Yeah, I I don't generally pick stuff up in a pro shop when I've been there, so I I need to start doing that. Um so yeah, thank you for that question, Jonathan, because I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure I do that from now on and get a good collection.

SPEAKER_00

We want to apologize to your wife in advance because as we know, if you come home with another hat or another polo, it's it's over. You gotta stop this. Now we start looking for a little bit more obscure things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I'd be lucky if I I could get a pencil maybe from each place I go to, but yeah, no, I'll try and get a top or a hat or something. We still buy the hats.

SPEAKER_02

They're surrounding us right now. Yeah. All right. This one's kind of an open-ended question. We're always curious what our guests will come up with. But what is one thing golfers should do?

SPEAKER_01

What is one thing golfers should do? They should subscribe to the business of golf.com. I agree. But if it's more on the court, I think look, I think replace your divots again is probably a very obvious one. But go replace your divot, then go subscribe to the newsletter. Simple.

SPEAKER_00

Easy, easy enough. Both things that will make your life better. Exactly. Exactly. All right, last question. Finish this sentence.

SPEAKER_01

The best part of golf is the best part of golf is getting outside, a bit of exercise, meeting new people, and having a good time.

SPEAKER_02

Very well said. Well, David, this has been a lot of fun. I know you guys have some exciting things coming up. Uh, at least that's what the teaser is in uh in the most recent uh newsletter. So I don't want you to spill the spill the beans there on that, but that would uh definitely mean that people need to go check out what you're doing because more new things are coming up uh quickly. So um tell everybody where they can find the newsletter and subscribe.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so uh if you go to the business of golf.co um you can find all our newsletters to date are on that uh that website, and you can subscribe there. It's it's free to subscribe, so we don't have any paywalls or anything, so all our content is is free. Um, and then we're also very active on LinkedIn, our LinkedIn and uh Instagram. So where the business of golf is our Instagram handle as well, where we generally summise what we've done in the newsletter there, uh, and we'll share interesting news uh from the world of business uh uh at that point. So yeah, so you can you can catch us there.

SPEAKER_02

Well, highly recommend uh and we will have links in the show notes for everybody to check out. But David, this has been fun, man. It's been fun getting to know you over the last number of months uh and following your journey, uh, what you guys are doing, because uh I think it is needed and y'all are doing it extremely well. And and I, for one, I know Jonathan is as well. We're really excited about what's next for you guys. So we will be following along with I'm sure everybody else. But um for David and Jonathan, this is Robbie, and you guys have been listening to another episode of the Whole Story Podcast.

Head Shot

Jonathan Hill

Co-host
Head Shot

Robby Woodard

Co-host