The Hole Story - Golf Podcast

The Rodeo Dunes Experience

• BestBall • Season 4 • Episode 36

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Join us as we explore the breathtaking Rodeo Dunes golf course in Roggen, Colorado, sharing first impressions, design insights, and the unique experience of playing in this expansive, dune-filled landscape. 

https://www.rodeodunes.com/

Podcast Cover 📸 Jeff Marsh

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*Music by AlexGrohl via Pixabay

SPEAKER_03

Just a dichotomy of like where you are and the site that you're on. I think that's what made that place so appealing for, you know, Michael Kaiser Jr. was just you're 35 minutes from the airport, 55 minutes from downtown Denver, and yet you you're like stepping back in time in the in the Wild West.

SPEAKER_02

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a very special episode of the Whole Story Podcast. Robbie here. I wanted to introduce today's show. Had a special opportunity to attend the Media Day at Rodeo Dunes out in Colorado recently. And what do we do best here is tell golf stories. So we gathered a group of friends to share their stories and their experience from that day, from the time that they have been a part of this Rodeo Dune story. It's a special property. Michael Kaiser Jr. and others are doing incredible things. Many of you have probably seen recently on social media a brand called Sandborn, which is going to be Rodeo Dunes, Wild Spring Dunes, and Old Shores. So all these Michael Kaiser Jr. projects. Really excited about all those. Very thankful to many friends who have made this possible, including Tom Farrell, who, again, golf is the best. We met Tom in Scotland and we've gone on some crazy, uh incredible uh trips uh to visit some great properties because of people like Tom. So very thankful to him, thankful for the team at REM PR, their group. They do incredible stuff like Caroline. Uh, she has been great to work with. So uh without any further ado, let's get to our story uh where we have a conversation with some special people. We'll introduce them when we get to it to talk about rodeo dunes. Ladies and gentlemen, we are here with a good group of folks, and we are chatting about Rodeo Dunes. Something that we all had the experience. We were talking, Michael, I think we figured out that it was almost two weeks ago now, as we were recording from when we were all on property there for Media Day. Uh and going around the horn, I've got uh Jonathan Hill, Michael Collander. Am I saying that right? Collander, yeah, close enough.

SPEAKER_01

You did better than most. Most people go with the collander. I'm not in the colander. Not a collander.

SPEAKER_02

Oh man, Michael with Colorado Avid Golfer. I got that right. Jeff Marsh and Mr. Matt Gibson. Guys, how are we doing this evening? Rolling. Yeah, we can't really hide the fact that it's not nighttime when Jeff is sitting in a dark car right now. And he's all in black. Like people are looking over and wonder what's happening here. It's his part of the job.

SPEAKER_00

He's he's a photographer by day, and he does uh he goes out and finds people who are cheating on their spouses at night. He just sits in dark cars, takes photographs from a long way away.

SPEAKER_03

You're not that far off. I'm sitting in the I almost invited you, Matt, the Pine Earth Brewery parking lot. And there's there's some interesting characters coming and going at nine something at night on a Monday.

SPEAKER_04

Just come to my house, man. We could have done it together.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I know, and you're you're a good I've been fiending for some of your you you're a good cook. Well, I don't know. It looks good on Instagram, but yeah, I should have I should have come your way tonight.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, don't looks deceive you.

SPEAKER_02

Well, we do that's for a different uh different podcast where we talk about Matt's cooking. Well, guys, I I appreciate it. We we were all at Rodeo Dunes. Jeff, I know you've gotten an opportunity to go out there a number of times. Michael, I imagine you've been out there and because of proximity, you've been out there a number of times. But for the rest of us and many others, last a couple weeks ago at Media Day was the first time that we got to lay eyes on it in person and check this amazing place out. And so I I guess the first question I just want to throw out there, and y'all feel free to chime in. There's no order here, but I I want to know first impressions, right? Like when you pull onto that dirt frontage road and you're driving down and you know it's coming, uh, and you get to that temporary clubhouse, the the trailer there, what were the first impressions that you had as you pulled up?

SPEAKER_01

I think being a Colorado native and somebody that has seen a lot of golf courses in Colorado, the first impression is this is not Colorado, uh, because we don't have, we're not supposed to have dunes like that out here. We're supposed to have mountains. So definitely uh a totally different property uh and just kind of landscape than than you're expecting, you know, 30 minutes from the Denver airport.

SPEAKER_04

I'll like uh chime in and do you ever are you ever with people and then they say something which you were thinking and then I almost like feel annoyed that it feels like I didn't have an original thought. Jeff like said something which was so like prominent in my mind, but we were driving in and he said, look how big the sky is, which I realize is such like an insane thing to say because the sky objectively is just like the same everywhere, right? But you're driving in and it just feels like you can see for like hundreds of miles around you. And that was like my first like initial feeling when we were driving in. It's just like I couldn't believe how like much I could physically see. And so when we pulled up, and look, I'm with Jeff who knows everyone, and so that it was a really cool thing to get to meet everyone, but like that was my first initial thought was just how grand the sky was and how far you could see. And then Jeff said it like 45 minutes later, and I went, Man, I feel so like validated in that thought. So that was my first initial thing, as I just couldn't believe the scale of just the site and how big it all felt.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

If Jeff Marsh ever says something that you were thinking, that's definitely good validation. Everybody, everybody should know that.

SPEAKER_00

Or it's the voices in your Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02

What did you Jonathan, what did you think? What were your initial impressions after we almost turned back on the interstate instead of the front edge road?

SPEAKER_00

We we did almost. The lady was mad because I got on or off the on exit. So, but it was fine. We turned on our flashers. You know, for me, the first thing was every part of my childish teenage boy d wanted to literally just like spin the car around because it was like, oh, this is loose gravel, this could be a lot of fun. I like the aspect of whenever you pull up, there's nothing there. Like right now, and I and I I don't know if they'll keep this. I really hope they do, but there is almost like this whenever we finally got on the carts and they're driving us back to where the course is going to begin, and you you can't see, you can't see where it is, where you're going. You're wondering, of course, they were wondering part of the day if they were on the right trails. Like it's just you're just going, and then all of a sudden it just pops up at the top, that first T box with the chairs and the people waiting, and then you walk up and then you begin to see the expanse because, as you guys have mentioned, like there's nothing in the way. You can see, you can see all the holes and the way that they're set up. And I just hope that they keep that surprise aspect. Uh, I really enjoy that idea of like pulling into something and making that last turn, and then it just appears out of nowhere. And I don't know if they're going to be able to keep that sort of anticipation, but as you're going along, there's these little rodeo guys, the logos on on the side, and then there's another one, and you're like, okay, I haven't gone down the wrong path. And then finally you get there. I just hope they keep that sense of expectation uh somehow in place.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I agree. I thought, and you made that comment, it was kind of like the landman thing, right? Like, yeah, you've got all this stuff that you think I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track, and yes, the logo was there to make sure we were. And then yeah, you there's a big reveal, and it's not in the parking lot, which I I like that. But I did like I did like the parking lot aspect too, though, because if you think about the rodeo dunes and kind of the the western, the cowboy, the ranch, the rodeo thing, like it kind of felt like you're pulling into a stall, right? And you needed to like get a rope out and tie your car up so it wouldn't like a horse, right? Like it wasn't gonna run off. I don't know if that was the intent, but that was kind of the feeling I got. And then for me, like you we get out of the car and everybody there walked up, and I'm sure excellent training. This is just the dream golf thing and and all the you know stuff that they do. But the hospitality that was there from every single person of hey, I'm so-and-so, welcome, right? And I know you guys probably got that as well. It's just over-the-top hospitality, very well done.

SPEAKER_03

All right. The the unique thing about that, when Matt and I pulled up, um cracked the door into the trailer, and there was 40, 40 people in there. They were doing like a welcome orientation. I would say at least 25 of the people in that room, that was the first time they'd ever stepped foot on that property. And then 48, not even 48 hours later, you know, there was 40 something media people showing up, showing that, that type of excellent service. I think that that just goes to show whatever they communicated in that orientation, the point, the point got across. Um and they're just you know, they they're known for their hospitality. And I think you you have to just ooze kindness and welcomes, otherwise you're you just you're not gonna last, I don't think. You're not gonna fit in on their on their properties and just the overall experience. So I think they I don't know how they found everyone that they did, but they did a pretty dang good job, you know, creating that first impression for the media, and then you know, turn around the very next day and create a first class, you know, experience for the founders on their opening day. It was yeah, it was pretty cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well said. How how are you guys describing it? Yes, we uh we are some of the few that have seen it. So when you tell somebody I w I went to Rodeo Dunes or, you know, Jeff, people are probably asking you all the time, you know, based on all your your videos and photography and stuff, like how are you describing rodeo dunes to them? Like, do you have words that you can that you can describe it?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm usually telling people I didn't see much of the golf course, but I saw a lot of the sand and the grass. And I've heard the fairways are really nice. Maybe they are, maybe they're not. I spent most of my day knocking sand out of my shoes. The word I use is expansive, and and we've had the opportunity to play in places that are like that, to have those experiences. If you're from the southeast, I know Michael's up there in Denver, most of our world is surrounded by trees, so there's some sense of depth to what's going on. And there are just so many times that we would get on a T-box and you think, I don't have a club that reaches that far. And then once you hit it, you realize, oh, it's only like 250. So it seems daunting, but it's just expansive, both in the scale of the course itself, but then as you guys have talked about already, just everything that surrounds it. I mean, I don't know how many acres there were before we even got to the golf course. And that's before they come up, what was it, a seven and a half acre putting green? Like everything is just gonna be larger than life.

SPEAKER_03

So I I call it the the wild west of golf. I mean, you're in the wild west, but you know, stay set in these ancient dunes that you know, once you get down in the dunes, you I mean, Matt said this several times when we were out there. He's from the UK. Like I feel like I'm in Ireland or or Scotland, you know, so it's it's such a unique just a dichotomy of like where you are and the site that you're on. I think that's what made that place so appealing for you know, Michael Kaiser Jr. was just you're 35 minutes from the airport, 55 minutes from downtown Denver, and yet you you're like stepping back in time in the in the Wild West. Um Yeah, I it that that's the only way I could describe it. You know, it's there's a lot of words that you could use, but for me that that just kind of seemed like the fitting fitting descriptor.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, for sure. It felt like there was you had if you cut the holes out and put them in, like Jeff said, I kind of compared them to like Ireland or Scotland, they wouldn't have felt out of place. But it then felt very American, and I mean that in a good way, in terms of just scale. Like it was just such a big, expansive golf course. Jeff took a couple of videos of me. I was trying to uh shoot the course on foot, and it was just hard, like it was such a big golf course. Um, but each hole individually, you know, you could cut it out and put it in, you know, Northern Ireland or Scotland or the Republic of Ireland. But then when you like looked around, it was so big, and I think it was a really it's a really amazing mix of those like two sort of contrasting styles, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

And it's it's cool with the you know, it's kind of isolating on each hole. You feel like you are the only person out there, and then you'll just kind of look and you'll see these little little specks of people on top of other gyms. And that's like the only time you ever see anybody else. All of the holes are just kind of on their own. There are very few times that you know a green backs up to another green or a T-box and you see an actual full-size person uh close to you. Um so it's just yeah, kind of big and isolated, but it is cool that you'll, you know, you feel like you are not in Colorado or even the US, and then you'll just look west in the you know, you can see, you know, thousands of or hundreds of miles of mountain ranges. You see Pike's Peak all the way to Long's Peak, and uh if you're you know come and play in May, they'll be snow capped and uh just kind of reminds you of of where you're at.

SPEAKER_02

Michael, that's kind of what I thought, you know, being somebody from the East Coast, and you know, you tell people that you went to Denver-ish to play golf. Like for me, like I'm thinking, and most people that don't visit out there often think Rockies, right? They think mile high, they think it's gonna be mountain, snow capped, everything like this. And I'm like, no, no, no. This we were on the east side of Denver. Uh this is this is totally different. Like, yeah, I mean, I felt like if they uh if they do golf carts, they really should be like dune buggies, right? Like somebody just ramping and jumping these these massive dunes. It was, you know, I I I think rodeo dunes is such an appropriate name, but it it's gonna surprise people when they think I flew into Denver and now I'm here. Yeah. Based on maybe at least expectations you might have going into it. Jeff, let me ask this. I know you did another one of your amazing every hole in 4K, and I know you uh need to check out of here in a second. Tell me about that experience. Like from a you know, an aerial view, which Michael, I know you guys threw drones up. Matt, I think you threw a drone up and others did as well. But from an aerial view, what is what does that look like? We can see pictures and appreciate stuff, but are you seeing uh and experiencing the course in just a completely different way?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, we Matt Matt and I actually walked another core crunch off project today at Piners number 11, and we kind of talked about all the above. Some golf courses you just you have a really hard time capturing from the ground. And it's it's not for lack of like texture or detail, it's just the scale. Like how how do you how do you capture the the magnitude or the essence of a property? And rodeos, it's just it's hard to do that. I mean that at least on the on this first course, the highest point on the entire property is roughly where course number three will be. But you know, there's pretty big dunes out there, but they're not big enough to where you feel like you're you're up on a mountain. You do get up, you know, to a T box and you can kind of like peek over and oh, there's that that hole we were just on, or you know, I wonder what hole that that is. But man, you get the drone up 20 feet and it's just like a whole it's a whole different world. And that's where you really start to see the see the scale. And to go back to your your your first question, my first impression is a little bit it's a unique and it it ties into this the the drone thought. I was there Memorial Day in 23. I was in town shooting some stuff at Cherry Hills for the USAM. I really wanted to see this property. Brandon Carter at San Valley connected me with Josh Evanson, who has been the founding member director since day one. And he was like, Yeah, it's you know Memorial Day, I'm not around. So feel free to like see what you can see, but you can't really see much from the gate, which is right off of I So if you when you cross the overpass and you see the gas station and the motel, and we turn left, that's the way that you guys went. If you go right, just on the other side of the gas station, there's a gate. I think it's yellow or it used to be yellow. That was the original access point to get out to that property. It was locked. And it was kind of late in the day. I knew I didn't have a whole lot of time, so I figured well I'll just sit in the car like I am right now and fly the drone. I don't I I I feel like it took the drone 10 minutes just to get out to the dunes, which you can kind of see from from the interstate. I was just like, man, this place is really far out there. And then once it was out there, it kind of all you know, there's 3,500 acres, it kind of all looks the same when you don't have golf. Every, you know, every bump in the sand just sort of looked the same. I'm like, I don't know what I'm looking at. I don't know what part of this is a golf course, but I just like I wanted to see see it better. So 10 minutes of flying the drone back, it was really windy, that's why it took so long. Flew the drone back, landed it, packed up my backpack, hopped the gate. I don't suggest this. Um and I I I feel like it was two miles. The the path that I took. If you look on the map, there's two crop circles on the south side of the of the dunes. So I had to walk all the way around these crop circles. Michael, you might remember this. For some reason, in spring of 23, the bugs were horrific. There was like mosquitoes in downtown Denver like they've never had before. I don't know what it was, if it was wet, wet spring. I got absolutely murdered by mosquitoes walking around those crop circles. So it wasn't necessarily one of my more enjoyable um adventures, but I finally got out to where the dunes were. Still had no idea at what you know point in the property I was at. I found out a year later, I walked up to basically the top of nine, the dune above nine green 10T. And that was when I mean I walked up, I think it was probably a 35 to 40 foot dune. You can't see anything until you get up to that point, and then you're looking north, and it's like you're looking at Tatooine or something. It's just a different planet. Dunes, as far as you can see, you can kind of see the Rockies, but for the most part, all you see is dunes and nothing else. No, no livestock, no houses, nothing. And that that's where I was like, oh, this is the Wild West. I'm literally in the Wild West. And if they're putting golf here, it's gonna be world-class because it's I mean, already bunkers, ancient windswept dunes. If if you know Bill and Ben have the opportunity to do something here, it's gonna be magnificent. Yeah, it was weird. It was weird on Media Day seeing like the ants walking across the top of the dunes, like people, you know, off in the distance. It looked really cool, but there was a part of me where I was like, oh man, this is like an end of an era. You know, there's very few people that got to experience that property pre golf. Um, but obviously it's exciting too, you know, to to see people out there and and playing golf. And um yeah, it was it was a trip. Um and it's only gonna get I mean, that it's gonna get bigger and better. There's gonna, you know, they're working on course number two and the putting course and the short course. I mean, it's it's it's gonna go from like zero to a hundred really, really quickly. So if you do have the opportunity to get out there now, like do it. Um because it's you know, there's a trailer, but right after Media Day wrapped, there was basically a hurricane that ripped through, and I think we all wish we tied our cars off to the to the hitching post because the one structure out there I thought it was gonna fly off like a an umbrella. But yeah, it's you're gonna see everything out there. It's I don't know, hard to describe it.

SPEAKER_02

With when you when you were out there three years ago, were you sneaking around in the all black with the black cowboy hat on as well?

unknown

I don't

SPEAKER_03

I'll have to I'll have to look at the video. Uh I was trying I was doing my best to try and take a a video. Yeah. I know I had a raincoat on because I had I needed something to keep the bugs off. Um I wish I would have had pants. I mean it was it was awful. I was like, if it's gonna be like this every day, I I don't know how this place can be enjoyable, but I've you know I found out that this was it was kind of an anomaly.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah. How how did the uh how'd the video turn out the every every hole in 4K?

SPEAKER_03

Those are always an adventure. It's just kind of a a a mad dash because you're working around course conditions, weather, maintenance. I shot the majority of the flyovers in October last year around the rodeo event that they did. Um but we never really got a good sunset. And most of the mornings the flags weren't in. Go figure. They weren't actually playing golf at that point. So I knew going into this year, I think there were six holes that people didn't get to see. So I wanted to fly those because the bunkers were now, you know, cut in. There was flags in. But it's yeah, it's always just like a mad dash burning through batteries and memory cards and re-flying stuff because the sun came out. And um But it's yeah, you know, anybody that's flown a drone out there can attest. Every time you take the drone off, it's like, oh, this is sick. Like you're you're just you're seeing a different a different world. And um, yeah, it's it it never gets old.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for those that uh might not be able to see the course for a while, highly encourage y'all to go check out what Jeff has done and and obviously all the other content that Michael and Matt and everybody else has thrown out there. Um Jeff, if you need to bounce, feel free, but stick around as long as you want. Matt, let me ask you this. What makes what makes golf in dunes like this so much fun?

SPEAKER_04

Well, it's a great question. I don't know how well versed I am to sort of answer that. I guess like I'll answer it in two parts. The first is that so to to go back a step, the reason I was out there is Jeff and I have been talking, and obviously I've been doing some work with uh Bill and Bennett at number 11, and and knew Jeff had been out rodeo, and I was really like intrigued to see it. And I love their work, and I've been sort of like deep down the core credential rabbit hole, and they always talk about not touching or trying to move much land, and so Jeff told me at rodeo they really didn't move any dirt, right? And apart from maybe a whole 18, they like, but for the most part, it's just there and it's just part of the land. And and so I I don't know what makes playing in the dunes so fun, but again, when you go back to what golf was and what it originated as like the lynx land, in terms of like the land which like literally couldn't be used for farming because it linked the you know the beach to the farming to grazing stuff. My understanding for rodeo is like this land was part of the ranch which they like couldn't really use. And so it's like this is when we talk about like the origin and like what golf should be, this is what golf should be to me is like golf which exists and it should be fun, right? It's a game, and I think sometimes we take it so seriously. And that was my overriding emotion when we played Rodeo Dunes, it was just really fun, it and that's why I keep coming back to like it that like playing in Scotland Island, because you're in like this dunes land, which like isn't really suitable for anything other than I guess like playing golf, right? So yeah, I don't know if that answered the question, but that's how I think about it for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Jonathan, I know you fell in love with kind of the Dunes style golf when we went to Ireland and got to play Karn. So your thoughts on the Dunes here at Rodeo Dunes compared to something like that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I subjected my caddy once again to finding balls nowhere near a fairway. What I did though enjoy, and and Matt, you alluded to this, and Jeff, I think the picture you talked about, the uh you shared a picture around the same time the opening week of I think it was the picture on that number nine, of where you're on top of it and you can see left and right of it, and then you also showed where now there's golf. And so the three or four times I got to walk down a fairway, that was the thing that struck me was it feels like you're somewhere overseas because you could hit the perfect shots, and your ball could roll to a place that puts you completely out of position when it comes to even being able to see a green just because of the lay of the land and the fact that they didn't do anything about the dirt to make that happen. They literally just said, Yeah, this looks good, let's throw some grass on it. And so I remember one of the shots I actually did hit the fairway, and one of the golfers with us was pretty good. And so he was probably five feet. It wasn't you. You did have a heck of a round, but it wasn't you. It was the other guy from Texas. Anyway, he he was probably five feet away from ending up in a really bad position. And I love that aspect. The caddy and I were going back and forth talking about it, the idea that a bad golfer like myself, or someone that's not really good at golf, still had just as much fun and was challenged by bad shots as someone who's a good golfer because it's not a it's not a traditional hit the ball straight down a fairway, and now you got a 150 shot in and you know that's gonna be your nine-iron choke down. You know what I mean? Like there weren't moments that allowed you to have that sort of just boring golf. You still always had to be thinking through. And for a golfer shoots in the 90s like I do, it was uh an absolute blast. Even hitting it from the sand in places where you're like, well, hopefully I get a lie whenever I find my ball. And then also watching Robbie shoot like a 74 and doing the exact same thing, only from the fairway, right? Like having a few. 76, 76, maybe 76.

SPEAKER_02

So but but that was only play well, only play well when courses are not rated and it doesn't help me.

SPEAKER_00

So listen, he shot a 76 and ended up in the worst position possible on number 18. You shot a double or a triple on that one? A double, yeah. A double. And it and he, I don't know how he got out of there. Like it was impressive for him to do that. So it was a good day. But again, like it challenged both sides of the golf of the golfers. And so I enjoyed that. Like, I want a course that makes someone who's really good make that shot. I'm guessing, Michael, you probably had at least, because Michael's a good golfer, you probably had at least two or three shots where you're like, I've got to figure this out. Me and the caddy have to talk through this, even though I'm technically 130 yards out, but I've got a you gotta hit it over with the skull or something like that at one point, or you've got to find you're you're on the right side of the fairway, and so you can see a peak of the green, but you gotta flight this thing just right. So I I I find that just really fun golf. And like you said, Matt, it's a game. Like you could be completely frustrated by it because you're like, Well, I'm a two handicapped, I'm a plus two, whatever, and you're frustrated because all of a sudden the course exposes something that you didn't even know needed to be exposed. Mainly that you should just have more fun than being serious about it. But Michael, talk about your stuff because I'm sure you had at least a moment or two where you're like, crap, I hit that exactly what I wanted to, and here I am. See it, Jeff.

SPEAKER_01

See it, Jeff. Yeah, I mean, it uh the way I've explained it is almost every hole out there you can make birdie or you can make double. Like 18, Robbie. I I looked out a birdie putt, and you made double, and then I doubled 12 because I was in a bad spot, and you just kind of gotta take your medicine. And if you miss a green in the wrong spot, you're screwed. Um so you can birdie ever almost every single hole out there, and you can and double comes into play really, really quick. And the crazy thing is, is it's only gonna get harder when those greens firm up, everything gets fast and more links-y, like right now, is is kind of the most tame it's gonna play because there were a couple couple times my ball stopped on the green, and I was like, in a year, like this ball is going to be gone. Uh, there's no way it should have stopped right here, or it's gonna end up 15 yards left uh from here or whatever. So yeah, it it's just fun. Uh there they're if you hit the shots, right? Like number one, it puts you right in it. If you're down the left side of the fairway on one, you get a perfect angle into the grade. If you miss your spot right, you are completely blocked out and you cannot see the flag. You can't see the green. Um, and there's probably, I don't know, six holes like that where you have to be in the right side of the fairway, and then every once in a while, Corinne Crantra put a bunker just in the middle of the fairway right there that you still have to navigate. So yeah, they just they you you gotta hit your golf ball where you need it to go, but it doesn't mean you can't hit the recovery shot or hit that next shot. It just makes it, you know, a little more difficult.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I would say that the uh the one birdie I had when I played it was on that 16. Is that the path four kind of up the hill? And I just hit a horrid, like not a horrible drive, but just like I kind of flared a drive out right. I was like on the very right edge of the fairway. I had this like horrible lie, and I hit a seven iron that like peeled around, and I don't think that's a long hole. So the fact that I was hitting seven iron onto that green, like shows how bad I hit my drive. And I just like I said, it like kind of rolled off the dune on the right, and the pin was like and I hit it to like three feet. So my one of my worst drives of the day was the one hole that I made birdie on. So yeah, to your point, like there was you can get out of position, but you're as with any sort of round of golf, you're only one shot away, but it felt even more so on that golf course where you can really get out of. I thought four, and so we walked it before we played it. I thought four was one of those holes which I was so thankful that we had walked it before. I've have played with golf with uh Robbie and Jonathan, but like I'm an okay golfer, right? I hit a six-iron on that T because and I never hit irons on par fours, but I walked the golf course and I was like, if you miss down there, you're gonna bring the rough into play. There's a bunker down there. I was like, what a brilliant golf hole. And I hit six iron, nine iron, and walked away with a par. Do you know what I mean? And it's I thought it was really well designed. There was a bunch of awesome holes out there.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and you're talking about the green grass that cut through the fairway.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And then the green is like a kidney being up there with a mound in the middle of it. And yeah, uh, yeah, that hole is is awesome. Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

There are a lot of there are a lot of fun holes out there. So let me ask this. Uh, from a design standpoint, we we mentioned a few. Is there one that jumps out to you guys that was a favorite? Sure.

SPEAKER_04

There's I I have like two thoughts. I have the thought about being as a photographer, like the holes which I remember in terms of like being, you know, a great hole to photograph, and then there are holes which I remember like playing. I think nine is gonna be one of the most photogenic holes. 17 might be the one of the most photogenic holes I've ever seen. 17 gets amazing light at sunrise and sunset, and I had took that sort of overhead shot, and I think that hole's just that one is one that I remember and I played badly. I say badly, I made bogey on it, but I would love to have played it. I would love to play that hole again. I'd love to play all of them again, but 17 was the one that I like really think about, and at least from a photo point of view. I also loved uh is it 13? It's another sort of short part four with a massive dune behind. It might actually be like 12. It's a huge dune, right? Before you get the back-to-back part threes. That hole is amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, it's it's hard to. I mean, it's cool because there's a lot of little short fours, like six. The green up there is just diabolical. And again, like if when these greens get firm, like they're gonna pin some of these spots that are going to be impossible if you are in the wrong spot. But I think I think back to the first time, so I was kind of like Jeff, where I I was lucky enough I've been on property six times now, so I got to kind of see it go from nothing to having stakes in the ground to having it the land basically just like flipped over to just sand, so you could kind of see the shape and then grass starting, and then was out there for the first ride, and then you know, for media day. So it's been very cool to be able to see it evolve. And the first hole that we went on was kind of right, right kind of where where Jeff was, but we it was a little more west. It was it was eight. So when the first time you came in with with Josh Evanson, you'd come, you'd you'd take this road out, and then you just had to climb, climb these massive dunes. First of all, I don't know how Jeff didn't get lost out there and got back to his car because being out there without a golf course, the dunes are I mean, you just get lost. But so like you climb up this mound and then you come back down and you stand in the middle of you know these open dunes, you're like, this is this is absolutely a golf hole. Like you could you could see this long par five, you could see where the green was gonna sit, and they can push this T back as far as they wanted it to go. So seeing that go from nothing to an actual golf hole, and like like you know, we've talked about that there's no I mean they really did not move any dirt. The only one was that was on 18 to kind of build up some of the some of the fairway, but seeing the natural shape of that golf course and the way that Corinne Crenshaw just built it into that land was so cool, but there were also so many different holes. Like I remember talking to to Josh Evanson and uh he gave me you know a couple different routings that had like 26 holes, and you're like, we don't know how we're gonna eliminate you know eight holes off of this because they were all so good. And and what I think my favorite one is is two, that short little par three, and they didn't pin it, but the right side of that green, if they put the pin there, all you see is the the top of the flag, and it normally the wind is behind you on that one. So if they pin it right, and I mean you literally are gonna have like a five-yard window to land it in, but there's a big bunker behind it that uh that Josh has kind of coined the the sugar cookie bunker because you're just gonna hit it and then the sand's gonna come back in and kind of dust you like a sugar cookie. So there's just like that whole, you're just the first one, you're just kind of like, whoa. And then the second one's like, oh, we're we're in for a ride here.

SPEAKER_02

Jonathan was up on the dune. That was our last hole. He was up on that dune, I think trying to chip with somebody's right-handed club and then trying to putt off of that thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's that's exactly right. That's my dune play. I do not have photographic memory of anybody's golf course. Like, we get done with the golf course, and I can't tell you what the last hole was like most of the time. So, what I remember though is really the par threes, every single one of them requires a different club. We've all played the the golf courses where like the par three is just sort of an a thing that happened because you have to get from the one hole to the next, and this is how much land they had. And so I don't know how many times I've gone out and it's like the par three is always a 145 or 135 shot. And this one, every single par three had its own, had its own personality, had its own different club, had its own, as Michael just mentioned, challenges in terms of like how are you actually going to put a ball near there? And then, as we've all discussed, which I would love to go back and play, the number of times Robbie's caddy, he's a caddy at some other popular golf course nearby my house, he kept reading it like the greens were going to break. I mean, the number we had we had putts that were going downhill that would stop. Once the greens come fully in, this place is going to be like, all right, you're gonna aim six feet to the left and you're gonna get at like a you know, a six foot pace, and hopefully we don't roll past the whole 18 feet away. Like it's going to have those types of breaks and movements that I think that's great. I think that's fun. That's the kind of course whenever you get done. Again, no matter how bad or how good you are at golf, you think about it and go, I want to go try that one more time, which I think is the true test of a golf course. If you get done and think, if they let me ride, turn right back around and go back to hole number one, there's at least three holes that I want to go give one more shot at. So I again I I'd like to find more of the fair way next time that we get to play it, where I'm actually playing the golf course and not the sand, but I'll take it for what it was. I'll throw a plus one in for hole six as well.

SPEAKER_04

That hole is so good. The uh the green is just out of this world. Good. It was just like that has to be one of the best modern short path fours. It is so good.

SPEAKER_02

You say short, and we've got to give Trey Trey Wren a shout out because he they did a what a closest to the pen on that day, Matt. For anybody that I guess drove or got it on the green closest to the hole. Trey was the only one, and I'm pretty sure they were playing from the tip. So shout out to our buddy Trey Wren for doing that.

SPEAKER_00

Don't let Robbie fool you. Weren't you wasn't that the one that you hit within like five or ten feet of the green? Like you did it right at the top.

SPEAKER_02

I did get I did birdie that one. Yep. Not not on the green, but yeah. Michael, what'd you got?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I was downright on that one and had a super nasty flop shot up over a ridge, just disgusting. And then didn't hit my spot and had a two putt. But yeah, it I mean, you like you gotta hit your drive and probably a five-yard window. Otherwise your left is no good and right is no good, and like you're it it just kind of funnels off. And like like you said, Matt, that the green complex up there is it it's just it's crazy. Uh, it is it's so cool. And in two years, when that green, you know, fills in and it it's playing firm and fast. It I don't think driver will be the play uh out there because I don't know if you'll be able to get a wedge to stop anywhere near it.

unknown

No.

SPEAKER_02

If you're if you're playing first corn, that doesn't even talk about the bunkers that surround that one and so many of the other holes.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_02

Number number six to me stands out. All the par threes, like Jonathan said, they stand out. To me, and I I think this is something based on the fact we our group started on hole number three, and so we looped around, and number one was obviously our second to last hole. I love number one, and especially because I think about it now as like that's the starting hole for everybody else, you know, when they go out there, and just the coolness of you know, you could take it over this like blind shot. The caddy's like, yeah, there's more fairway there. So hit a three-wood or something because there's what a bunker farther out there that might uh might grab your ball. And then when you're up there at your next shot, looking as slightly uphill, and the green's kind of funky, is in between a couple big dunes. And I just thought thinking back on it, like how great of an opening hole that is, right? It's a it's a longer-ish parf four, but it gives you some strategy right off the bat. Like, do I take three wood? Do I try to bomb a driver and hope I miss a fairway bunker? Just a lot of fun aspects to that one. I think great, great opening hole.

SPEAKER_01

And well, you live with right down right down the gut, you have one of the biggest natural bunkers right behind it. So you're just like, like you said, in between two dunes, and then this just natural huge natural bunker just right behind it. And it's like, all right, yeah, we're in it now.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, there wasn't much like tactics, unfortunately, when I played it, because it was like 40 mile an hour winds directly into our face. So it I had a half set, so I hit driver, and I had like 225 kilometers in. So I hit driver, hybrid, and then flipped the wedge on, and I think I missed the paper. So I opened with bogey, but it was playing 40 miles in straight into the fan. So yeah, but it's a great opening hole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well I love the fact that like go ahead. No, no, I was gonna say when the wind is up up there, it's gonna be I I stood on 13 when I went out there when they had like kind of flipped everything so you could kind of see the holes, and 13 is that the first of the back-to-back part threes. We were out there in November, and when we started kind of the tour of driving around, it was you know 50 degrees and sunny, uh, so very doable in Colorado. And then all of a sudden it flipped, the wind kicked up, and the temperature dropped, and we were standing on on that hole, and you can go as far back, and it's like I think it's 240 or 250 from the back, and it was dead into like a 40 mile 40 mile an hour breeze, and it's you know, 38 degrees outside. And I honestly don't think you could get driver to cover the ravine up there. And it was like this is going to if the if it if it if it's windy out there, it's gonna be one of the hardest courses you will ever play because you will have no control of your golf ball, and you have to have control of your golf ball out there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I love it. I I think one other one other neat fact, and I know that the folks like at well, I haven't been to Bandon, but like I know Sand Valley, you're on the T box on number one, and as Tom Farrell said, you're also basically on the T box for the second course that Jimmy Craig is working on right now. It's kind of a shared opening T box, which is just so cool because I can go ahead and picture like So many happy people like showing up to play this thing. And like you got some heading right, some heading left. And like, oh man, it's just going to be such a fun playground. And I think fun is maybe one of the right words that should be described because if you're not having fun out there, like you shouldn't go out there because that's what it's that's what it's there for. Let's wrap this up. Uh, and I I want to ask this question. Again, thinking of Bandon and Sand Valley, those two properties have extremely high reputations. Like everybody wants to go there. It's on, you know, booked out for years. Will Rodeo Dunes live up to that hype and the expectations that let's say it's uh older brothers have?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think their marketing person said they had a over 300,000 inquiries for people that want to go there and be interesting.

SPEAKER_01

It was 600,000 in three days. Is that right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So uh she's doing she's doing a great job.

SPEAKER_01

Sold out for 45 years, is what they told me.

SPEAKER_00

Robbie and I stopped for Dr. Pepper at the gas station, and and we were literally thinking, do these people have any idea what's about ready to happen? Like, if I could buy that motel right now, I'd actually that might be a good idea. I might see if I can buy that motel right now. They want to burn it down first. No, no, no, no, no. We're keeping it as is. We're just gonna put some paint on it and people still pay. No, I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_02

But I mean, like that gas station's gonna make bank for sure.

SPEAKER_00

That exit is about ready to become a center hub for the number of rounds and people that will be coming and going as a part of that. And so I there's a part of you, there's a part of me that I've I've never been to either of the two, right? Van in Orsain Valley. I'm real I feel extremely fortunate to be able to experience a golf course. And I've done that a couple times before a course is fully developed into what it's going to be. To be at a place like that before it becomes what it's going to be. Just pure golf. That's it. Like there's there's nothing fancy about it. You know, they've got a portable toilet, they've got a portable clubhouse, they didn't even really know how to get us to the first T or get us back from the fourth T whenever we were driving. And so, like, just to be able to go out and enjoy the course as it as it truly is, without it being surrounded by all the niceties that will come. Which is interesting to think that right now, if I were gonna tell someone, is it worth the trip, even though you might drive an hour from downtown and there's nothing there for you, and like you're gonna have one cooler that's gonna give you a Gatorade and a can, would it be worth it? 100%. Like, go do it. It would be absolutely perfect to go and play the golf course as it is. It'll be I hope they treat that space in that area with I hope they do as well at putting the golf course into a space without unearthing things and as they do for the rest of it, that it will feel the right way whenever you still pull up into the parking lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just knowing the the team that's out there, Tom Farrell, Josh Evanson, uh Michael Kaiser Jr., that you know, they do not do things halfway. They're like not even 90%. Everything they're doing is 120%. You can see it like early on in this. And what separates what what differentiates rodeo from Bandon in Sandale is the ease, right? I mean, like like we talked about, it's 35 minutes from the airport. So you can come in, you can play, and you can fly home. Like Matt, you know, he was out there for a little bit the morning of media day and grabbed an Uber. I don't know how if you've caught an Uber in Rogan, Colorado, but uh got an Uber back to the airport and had an afternoon flight. Like you can't do that in Band and you can't do that at Sand Valley. And just talking to the team out there and being up there kind of as much as I have in the last two years, seeing what it what it has done and how quickly they are moving on that stuff, but how spectacular it is in just the land itself. Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna look exceed the hype. And course one is you know, corn crenshaw, like like Matt's talked about. The way that they just build golf holes is it's just like anything. It's it's not like any anything else. The the natural way of doing it. And you know, Jimmy Craig learned from them and he's building number two. Uh and number three is gonna be the championship course and the biggest dunes. Uh so like I don't think they can I don't think you can miss out there just based off of where you're at the land. And you know, being a Colorado guy, no humidity. Uh, you guys can all speak to how much humidity kicks your butt. No humidity, yeah, we don't have much oxygen out here, but uh the no-humidity part is is uh stellar too.

SPEAKER_02

Matt, any uh any other thoughts on how it will how it will live up to expectations?

SPEAKER_04

I will just add that I couldn't get an Uber, but Aiden did give me a list back to my hotel, and I got an Uber from my hotel. So I'm sure in a few years' time there will be uh there will be some form of you know cab system. Yeah, it's honestly kind of a hard one for me to answer because I've not done Bandon, I've not done San Valley, and I'm going to Bandon for the first time in August. And I have to like it's at least offer the thought with my like Pinehurst hat on a little bit, you know what I mean? And I am around a golf resort, a successful golf resort every day, and I like see how these things operate. And yeah, I mean, everything's there. The the land is there, the people are there, and so yeah, I can't see a world where it's not a home run. It already is a home run. And I I think the thing that we kind of touched on, look, the golf course is obviously fantastic. Jeff kind of spoke about this at the start, but the people really are amazing. And that's why he spoke about, you know, like, hey, I actually want to lift to my hotel because I couldn't get an Uber. I'm not joking. 15 different people offered to drive me back to my hotel. Uh and that is like at will always be, in my opinion, at the heart of what makes a place really, really truly special. And uh yeah, the golf course is obviously fantastic. Bill and Ben don't miss the the topography out there is is wild. But the just a shout out to everyone who I met for the first time and left and felt like I was part of the family. I thought it was amazing. So shout out to everyone there for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, I uh I did get to experience Sand Valley last year and makes me really, really excited for what's going to be coming there in Colorado at Rodeo and and the other future properties. Um, but no, the people you talked about, everybody I think. But you know, Tom Farrell, uh Kaisers, having Clark Willard there. Uh Clark is the man, one of the nicest guys in the world. And then Michael Brewer's the superintendent, they are crushing it and his team. Uh, we met Sierra, who is Jonathan, uh the marketing person. You mentioned Josh, and just everybody there. Again, once you get on property, you feel like Matt, just like you said, like you're family, right? Or that you've been friends for a long, long time. And with that, with that kind of mindset and attitude, like this place is going to be special and people will be putting it on bucket list for a long, long time. So any uh any final thoughts that you guys have, or you know, one last word of encouragement to somebody. They did say you need to make sure you're on the the insider list. I think it's uh if you go to rodeodunes.com, you need to sign up for the insider. And yes, like Michael said, it's sold out for a couple decades now, but uh that's when they'll uh they'll start releasing tea times here shortly for 2027. But any final comments or thoughts on why people need to put it on the bucket list? Michael, I'll start with you as a Colorado guy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean I think the cool thing about just even I'll just kind of pitch Colorado a little in this is I mean, you guys got to see it. You can fly into Denver, you can go play, you can drive an hour and go play mountain golf, get the true altitude, you know, big, you know, big mountain backdrops, ball goes really, really far. You can drive an hour and play desert golf, and then you can drive an hour and play dunes golf. Um so like if you're looking for a trip to hit just all of the Gulf of like Colorado kind of has it and it's it's showing because golf is is continuing to boom out here, but the cool you know, every single person out there did not want to be anywhere anywhere else. The workers, that is where they wanted to be, the caddies, that is where they wanted to be, and obviously the media and the you know the the people playing, that is where they wanted to be, and like that just makes it such a special place, and you know, I just don't know if the the newness and kind of the the specialness of that is gonna wear off for a long, long time. Like it is abandoned. Uh I've been lucky enough to go out and play abandon, and it's it's the same thing. Like everybody has a smile on their face, everyone is out there doing exactly what they want to do. No one wants to be somewhere else. Um, and that's how this is this is going to be like it is a place that listen, you're going to play golf, you're not going to go to the spa, you're not going to like, yeah, you're going to probably have some really good food, but that's just to refuel you to go to go back out and then go spend an hour and a half on the putting green and then go play the short course. And um, like it, it is a true just golf trip. And if you want to do that and go play in the mountains and go like you can do that out here, which is which is what makes rodeo different from Bannon and San Valley is just the access to everything else. Uh like you could you can go play 18 holes, come back and go to a Rockies game and drink a beer and watch the sunset over the Rocky Mountains and watch the Rockies lose 19 to 6 because that's how bad the Rockies are at baseball right now. But you know, it just it it just it the the location makes you feel so isolated, but you're really not that far from everything else that you're able to, you know, enjoy downtown Denver and get up into the mountains if you wanted and and then just be right where you want to be.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I give a quick shout out because you mentioned caddies who want to be there are my guy, my guy Shane, and then Jonathan had lamb chop, but also uh our buddy Ricky, who I met at Sand Valley a year ago, and he was saying then, like, I am going to rodeo, like I want to be in Colorado caddying at this place because he knew how awesome it was going to be. And it was great to catch up with Ricky out there. So Jonathan, you you made the same comments about Colorado or Denver being a destination place because of the few different places we get to play. So echoing Michael's thought, uh, what are your thoughts, just to add on to the that being a destination for golf trip?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was almost going to say the exact same thing that Michael said in the sense of if you have an opportunity to book the trip to Rodeo Dunes, regardless of how many golf courses they have, and everyone says this, but it's true. Like, add an extra day on both ends and find a local course. I know Matt got to play Colorado Golf Club. We played Fossil, one of the most fun courses we've ever played. You can go teach caddies how to be caddies over at Common Grounds. Like, there's so many places that you can experience golf in extremely good public and private spaces that there's no reason. I we were talking about the fact that if I were going to put together a destination golf course for only public courses, Denver goes on the list. Like Denver is probably top of the list now of how many different public courses could we play that aren't your destination locations. But rodeo is just like I don't know if it's the Sunday or the cherry on top, but either way, I'd want to go back to Denver and play golf at all the spots that we visited and find two more. That was the experience that I that was the experience and the feeling that I had for it.

SPEAKER_02

And I bet you could check out Colorado Avid Golfer to help plan that trip.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, come on out. You're always invited. You're always invited, Jonathan. Come hang out and show you some.

SPEAKER_00

We've got a we can state Howie's baseman.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. That's right. Sleepover.

SPEAKER_02

Matt, final thoughts.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I can't speak to the sort of the Denver or the Colorado aspect, but I'll speak about like a little bit about why I was out there, which was Bill Corr and Ben Crenshaw, and obviously I've gotten to know, I say know them or see them and work with them a little bit at number 11. And I don't know if you guys know this about me, but I'm a big movie fan. You know, I love my cinema. My mother went to drama school years ago. And so, you know, I kind of equate it to like my favorite film directors, right? So when Christopher Nolan releases The Odyssey, I'm gonna go see The Odyssey in IMAX. When Denny Vilnu releases the new Dune movie, I'm gonna go see the new Doom movie because I know that they have like earned that level of respect of just like the highest level. And when I think about Corinne Crenshall, that's like the level that they're at now in terms of like how I think about it. In terms of look, I wasn't a big golf architecture, like I'm gonna say nerd, but I'm not even sure that's the correct word for it. I just would play the golf and I wouldn't really think about it. And I've seen and been a lot closer to it, and I have a far, far greater appreciation for it. And now it's kind of like, you know, when you are young and you start getting into movies to like complete the circle and you watch like Kill Bill, and then you're like, man, I gotta go watch every Tarantino movie now. And so for me, it's like I need to go see every core, like core credential course that exists. And for me, this is like the newest like masterpiece that they've made, you know what I mean? And this is so that's how I think about it, and that's why how I got out there. I just said to Jeff, like, I I gotta go see this thing, and yeah, it's amazing. And to to kind of like make that one-to-one analogy, like when Nolan releases a movie, it's not gonna be bad. When Bill Never releases a new movie, it's not gonna be bad. When Core Crenshaw making you golf course, you know it's gonna be pretty spectacular. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I I think the combination, like let's say Nolan makes a movie and it's got you know any of the the major Cillian Murphy, right? Like if it has him in it, like the combination is you you know it's gonna be extra, extra good. So you got Core Crenshaw, you got Michael Kaiser Jr. and that team. It's it's just gonna be epic, right? So absolutely great, uh, great thought there, Matt. Guys, I appreciate it. This has been fun. It was awesome to get to hang out with you guys out in Colorado for a little bit of time at a beautiful place that's only gonna get better. Highly, highly encouraged. And I think you've heard everybody here talking about it. Go check out what Rodeodunes is all about. Again, you can look at rodeodunes.com, follow them on all the social channels, look at any of uh any of these guys' uh social feeds, and you will see some great stuff. And uh yeah, go check out golf in Colorado for uh for Matt and Michael and Jeff and Jonathan. This is Robbie. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you guys later.

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Jonathan Hill

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Robby Woodard

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